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Letters to the Editor: August 20, 2008
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Letter of the Day: What do we expect?
Editor, Daily News:
What’s the big deal about unfaithful politicians?
This has been going on forever. With the liberal climate of the country (and, indeed, the world) I’d be surprised if it didn’t accelerate. You can’t have an “anything goes” culture and expect people to behave in a civilized manner.
Morality must be taught. It isn’t in our nature.
When parents and schools fail to do this, civilized behavior breaks down.
Taking God out of the equation kind of seals the deal.
Is it time to take a giant step backwards?
Lee B. Miller, Naples
Letter: The way to go
Editor, Daily News:
Naples Pathways Coalition is a nonprofit organization working hard to provide safe, integrated, accessible, non-motorized transportation routes throughout Collier County. The ultimate responsibility for safety is shared between cyclists, pedestrians, motorists and law enforcement using and policing our roadways.
Do you know the laws?
I invite anyone using the road to learn how to safely share the road by visiting our Web site at: www.naplespathways.org. There you will find links to all current bicycle and pedestrian laws governing Florida’s roadways.
Sharing the road is more important than ever. As this paper has reported, rising fuel costs are driving more and more people to cycling and walking as primary modes of transportation. Whether you are a cyclist, pedestrian or motorist, it is your responsibility to know the laws before you hit the road.
Knowing the laws, practicing the laws and exercising common sense will prevent accidents and hefty fines. Save lives! Save money! Know the laws!
Shannon Chesser, Executive director, Naples Pathways Coalition
Letter: More dubious beach thinking
Editor, Daily News:
I was shocked to read on the front page of Thursday’s paper that Collier County government is suggesting adding a two-level parking garage at Delnor-Wiggins Pass State Park to increase parking density from the current 350 to 550 spaces.
The garage would be in parking area four, at the far north end of the park, thus necessitating that all 200 extra vehicles traverse the one-lane-each-way 15 mph winding lane, which is shared by bikers and walkers, from the entrance of the park past parking areas one through three. Environmental concerns aside, this is another ill-conceived plan like the suggested Vanderbilt Beach pier.
Recently, we found out that the commissioners voted to eliminate the 18 public parking places on the north side of Vanderbilt Beach, between the under-construction, massive Moraya Bay and Delnor-Wiggins, to provide yet another beach access without parking.
A few years ago, the county tried a beach trolley from U.S. 41 to Vanderbilt Beach, which failed.
Why not rework that idea with a year-round electric tram from the parking facilities at Conner Park to the access point at the end of 111th Avenue North, such as the one at Clam Pass? That would solve all the traffic problems in the area and provide a new tourist attraction that year-round residents could also enjoy while leaving our state park as is.
If you are as outraged as I am by the latest county plan, please stand up and be counted in this election season. E-mail the commissioners:
-- FrankHalas@colliergov.net
-- JimColetta@colliergov.net
-- FredCoyle@colliergov.net
-- DonnaFiala@colliergov.net
-- TomHenning@colliergov.net.
Alicia Astorga, North Naples
Letter: There is another way
Editor, Daily News:
I am writing in regard to the new superintendent and Collier County School Board wanting to outsource janitorial services.
You know this company has to make money — at our expense — and cause many of our workers to lose their jobs.
Why do School Board members have to be paid? In Illinois, where I am from, they don’t get paid or reimbursed for mileage. I know because my husband served on our school board for five years and gave two months from his sales business to save all extracurricular activities in our schools and lost some of his own money to do it.
How many board members here would do that? They wouldn’t. That would help our budget a lot that they are always talking about.
I’m sure a lot of custodians would have trouble finding other jobs here.
If the School Board has to be paid, let members cut their salaries, but as we all know they wouldn’t do it.
I have been a taxpayer in Collier County for many years and want our money spent wisely and for the good of all students and not the School Board.
Doris Pells, Naples
Letter: That so?
Editor, Daily News:
I note with delicious irony that in her rebuttal to Andrew Joppa’s defense of free-market capitalism, Robbins Winslow uses “human genius,” the “multiverse,” the writings of Susan Jacoby and even quantum mechanics to suggest that free enterprise must be tempered by “the referring role of government.”
To further the point, China and Russia are proffered as examples of countries that have come to realize that “... the profit motive must be constrained (not eliminated) for the common good lest it devolve into greed, corruption and human subjugation.”
So there you have it. We must become more like Russia and China, and less like our greedy selves, for the betterment of mankind.
I wonder what other corrupt societies like the Czech Republic, Tibet, Ukraine, the Baltic states and best of all, Georgia, think about that.
Arthur Walsh, Naples
Letter: Shaking and baking
Editor, Daily News:
The time may come when Earth will be like Mars, devoid of life. Our use of chemicals, nuclear energy and other destructive practices may well cause the end of life on Earth.
The burning of fossil fuels is causing ozone depletion and the planet is heating up. The polar ice caps and glaciers are melting. Plants and animals are becoming extinct.
The Everglades are being destroyed by agricultural runoff from farms and toxins from urban development that is encroaching on environmentally sensitive swampland. The oceans are full of plastic wastes and poisons. The coral reefs are dying because of chemical runoff from surrounding lands. The deserts are expanding and storms are becoming more destructive.
Humans are dying from AIDS, cancer, heart attacks, strokes, obesity, bird flu and other epidemics.
The rain forests are being destroyed as they succumb to chain saws, explosives and bulldozers of selfish and greedy humans. The Earth is being raped and exploited for profit. Nuclear warfare is a distinct possibility, which could cause the end of all life.
Some environmentalists are pessimistic about survival of life on Earth. I asked an environmentalist about 12 years ago if he thought there was much hope for life on Earth. He looked very serious and shook his head “no.”
Sometime in the future it is possible that Earth will be like Mars, a dry, dusty, uninhabited planet. Maybe there was life on Mars at one time and the dominant species became too smart and destroyed all life.
Eddie Filer, Naples Park
Letter: Tighten, don’t squeeze
Editor, Daily News:
In a recent letter, a mother complained that school uniforms deprived her daughter of creativity.
A thinking mother would recognize that uniforms are economical, reduce bullying and keep students’ attention on scholarship rather than on how they dress.
The more affluent students are able to buy designer clothing unavailable to low-income students. Then the latter are bullied and teased because they lack such attire. How sad.
Using uniforms helps to equalize students so that all are better able to achieve scholastically.
Removal of Proposition 5 from the November ballot is a good thing. If passed, it would have placed a hardship on low-income families. What surprised me is that Gov. Charlie Crist would have supported it in the first place, along with leasing sections of Alligator Alley. Leasing sections of this property paid for by taxpayers to obtain a large sum of money at this time is stealing from future generations. Those two decisions by the governor are enough to warn me not to vote for him if he runs for a second term.
They show poor judgement on his part.
True, currently the economy is suffering. What is needed is a willingness to tighten our belts and help those less fortunate.
We lived through the 1930s Depression and the food and gas rationing of World War II. We can do it now, but we should do it without putting burdens on future generations.
June Gates, Naples
Letter: This is, was a test
Editor, Daily News:
I hope the voters have taken note of how President Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice have jointly handled the crisis in Georgia, and their very forceful comments hopefully will make the aggressor in this very serious situation, Russia, come to its senses and withdraw.
What we heard from Barack Hussein Obama was unbelievably naive — “all parties should show restraint.”
Obama is so inexperienced in foreign affairs that no matter who he picks for vice president, he, Obama, is clearly not qualified to be a world leader and I hope the public has taken note of this.
Michael R. Adler, Naples
Letter: That Left Coast for you
Editor, Daily News:
While the country suffers, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi tries to keep us from using the oil we can pump from the ground. She thinks she is either an independent entrepreneur or CEO of a large company. She doesn’t realize she is just a salaried worker, albeit a white-collar worker.
Nancy, you are our employee, and as such you are expected to work for our benefit and do what the majority of us want, not advance your political desires.
You prove that nothing good comes from California.
Tom Dawber, Marco Island
Letter: The last straw
Editor, Daily News:
I can only conclude that the Daily News must benefit from illegal immigration in some way to print an article so slanted in sympathy towards illegal immigrants as Sunday’s Associated Press article about the immigration raid on an Iowa agri-processing plant.
The townspeople, or at least the owners of the meat-packing plant and others who benefited by selling something or other or renting to the illegal immigrants, apparently ignored the issue for decades, thumbing their noses at U.S. employment and immigration laws until it got to the point of a raid.
Now it’s the federal agency which is the bad actor?
The reporter for the story appears so enamored of the people that she continually calls them “immigrants,” failing to give any importance or relevance to the facts that they broke federal laws to be here and that they are using stolen identities to make a living. She interviews one Guatemalan woman who claims she did not even know that she violated immigration law and has been using stolen identity documents.
Wow. How about if thousands, no, millions, like her became targets for sleazy lenders to give bad mortgages to. What a mess we would be in then.
No, wait, maybe that did happen.
Help me understand the logic. What is the difference in breaking the law between stealing someone’s identity to work here illegally and having, say, a grow house? They both are victimless crimes, produce income, help the economy, right? Why no articles about the poor grow-house operators who are only doing work that Americans won’t do?
So what is it that illegals do for you — deliver papers, work all night at the worst jobs, mow your grass, clean your offices?
Alexandra Sulecki, Naples
Letter: The basics, by God
Editor, Daily News:
The recent religious-values debate between the presidential candidates borders on total stupidity. What does religion have to do with running the United States?
President Bush ran on those so-called values twice and look at the results. Presumably, he had spoken to God (the greater father) and now we have a country slowly being destroyed by division, unjustified war and greed. None of it bodes well for the future of our nation. Wouldn’t it be more productive to measure the candidate on intellectual capacity and judgment rather than “who likes God better” and tries to convince the population of that position?
I guess I’m insensitive to the religious right, but it seems they have created more problems than solutions. I hope and trust the U.S. remains a secular government respecting the separation of church and state and, therefore, will not become a theocracy similar to some other backwoods nations in the world.
Personal values should be focused on respect for oneself, family, general society and the world environment. If most people would practice this lifestyle, they will have done God’s work without any interpretation of the Bible and its relationship to the U.S. Constitution and we wouldn’t have to worry about absolution.
Henry S. Kolesinski, Naples
Letter: Stupid? Look who’s talking
Editor, Daily News:
Sunday’s Daily News offered a letter to the editor headlined “It’s ... just stupid” in which the author wrote that the solution for our oil shortage is to not drill for more oil (!).
He states that “... everyone agrees that offshore drilling will not solve our oil shortage.”
He has the right, of course, to say whatever he pleases, but actually, most everyone agrees that the answer is to indeed to drill more wells, whether in the gulf, Atlantic or the Manhattan-sized area known as Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. All polling on the subject shows that a clear majority of Americans (even Californians) are in favor of offshore drilling. But what really makes the non-drilling position truly stupid is the assertion that more oil won’t make any difference in prices, and that it will take too long to get it out of the ground.
If I may ask, how long does the writer think it will take to replace our oil economy with one that is served by alternative fuels? If he does any kind of research he will find that the answer is at least a decade, probably more, away. He also does not understand simple economics: commodity prices go up when the demand for the commodity at the margin is squeezed by supply restraints (and yes, speculators add to the problem, as they do in all markets). Adding even a half-million barrels a day to worldwide supply would make a significant difference in pricing.
The easiest and quickest non-stupid approach is obviously to drill for more oil and get that stuff online quickly. That would carry us over the shortages that would otherwise occur before alternative fuels can replace any significant amounts of (imported) oil.
Arthur Walsh, Naples
Letter: All a scam by the carpetbaggers
Editor, Daily News:
The United States of America does not have the right to condemn Russia’s actions. By invading Iraq, based on a pack of lies from our corrupt leaders, we have forfeited our moral right to judge them.
And I hope the American public sees the gas-price decline for what it is — a bribe before a run up to the election.
This whole gas/oil crisis was carefully orchestrated by the Bush/Cheney administration anyway, so they could scare the country into giving big oil carte blanche drilling rights, thus securing their own wealth.
Thank God we only have to endure five more months of these carpetbaggers. I hope we last that long.
Ginger Robinson, Naples
Letter: Get smart
Editor, Daily News:
Yes, Ken Mabucchi’s letter was “just stupid” in Sunday’s paper.
America needs energy independence and we need it now — with oil, oil, oil. We also need the natural gas of this country, coal, drilling in our offshore regions and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. We need the energy from wind mills, nuclear power, from anything we can get it.
We spend $700 billion a year for oil from other countries who hate us; it’s time we brought good times back to this country instead of just to politicians who are taking a vacation instead of allowing us to drill for oil.
Why do you think Vladimir Putin went into Georgia with his tanks and is taking over that country? Because of oil. Georgia has the pipeline taking the oil to the Caspian Sea and Putin wants control of it. Why do you think Russia has become a giant since the Cold War? Because it has energy independence, oil and everything else and will do anything to get more of it.
Seventy percent of Americans want us to drill for oil now, and with new methods we can get it more quickly and cleanly. Let’s do it. Call your congressman, and Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. Tell them to get back to work and pass some legislation for a change.
Jeannette Maiale, Naples
Letter: Book ’em, Vincent
Editor, Daily News:
All of the Bush “bobbleheads” saturating our area who garner their political information from the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannerty, Ann Coulter, Bill O’Reilly and Fox News should be required to read a book by Vincent Bugliosi entitled “The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder.”
Bugliosi is a retired Los Angeles prosecutor, who successfully prosecuted 105 out of 106 felony cases and 21 murder cases without a loss (including Charles Manson). He has also authored such best sellers as “Helter Skelter” and “Outrage” (the O. J. Simpson case).
After reading this carefully documented and researched book about the outrageous behavior of the Bush White House (and I don’t expect any of them to read it since it contradicts all they hold dear politically), there can be no doubt that many in the current administration, because of their arrogance and hubris, are criminals who should be held accountable for their disregard of the Constitution and laws of the land and the ruination of our country economically as well as our reputation worldwide.
The attack on Iraq and abandonment of the search for Osama bin Laden are equally well-documented and can leave no doubt that more of the same from our political leaders cannot be tolerated in our next election.
Robert F. Tate, Naples
Letter: Oh, those great kids
Editor, Daily News:
So many serious, interesting and thought-provoking letters are sent to you.
I think a change of pace is in order.
In these troubled times, a little diversity is good and refreshing. I’m referring to praise of our talented and dedicated youth.
I saw “A Year with Frog and Toad” on July 26, in which my granddaughter, Emily Attanasio, performed; and “Footloose” on Aug. 9, in which my grandchildren Megan Attanasio and Kurt Kluberdanz performed.
Both plays were so enjoyable and it proved our local youth practiced long and hard to please us, and therefore they deserve our praise. Bravo to all those young people who practiced and sacrificed a lot in order to bring us good, wholesome entertainment.
Doris Pritchard, Naples
Letter: The name of that toon
Editor, Daily News:
The Adam Zyglis political cartoon (“Meddle Winners”) you ran in the Saturday edition was disgusting.
Putting up with the likes of John Riccio and Eddie Filer in your letters section is tough enough, but they represent only the writer’s opinion. Your selection of columnists and cartoonists is a reflection on your newspaper and its political bias.
Bruce Durkee, Naples
Comments
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Newly obtained documents prove that in 2003, Barack Obama, as chairman of an IL state Senate committee, voted down a bill to protect live-born survivors of abortion - even after the panel had amended the bill to contain verbatim language, copied from a federal bill passed by Congress without objection in 2002, explicitly foreclosing any impact on abortion.
#1 Posted by GoneFishin on August 19, 2008 at 7:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Obama's legislative actions in 2003 - denying effective protection even to babies born alive during abortions - were contrary to the position taken on the same language by even the most liberal members of Congress. The bill Obama killed was virtually identical to the federal bill that even NARAL ultimately did not oppose.
#2 Posted by GoneFishin on August 19, 2008 at 7:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Eddie, it's fossil fuels that was hurting the ozone layer and the polar caps seem not to be shrinking so much.
#3 Posted by GoneFishin on August 19, 2008 at 7:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Eddie, it's not fossil fuels that was hurting the ozone layer and the polar caps seem to be growing.
#4 Posted by GoneFishin on August 19, 2008 at 7:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Never mind - can't talk on the phone and work on the computer at the same time.
#5 Posted by GoneFishin on August 19, 2008 at 7:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Uniforms are for prisons not schools....
#6 Posted by dooley on August 19, 2008 at 8:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks for re-posting your no answer bs post FISH.
First you change the original question. Then you give six stupid statements and say they are specific answers. It's time for you to give it up and go fishing. There's a head boat out of Punda Gorda that will take your money and your bs.
#7 Posted by bossman1 on August 19, 2008 at 9:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Perhaps it is time to leave the politics of the Presidential election as the rhetoric has been increasingly bizzare over the last few days
I believe the western world will have to keep a close eye on Pakistan for the next 30-60 days while the civilian goverment elect a new president.
it will also be necessary for the civilian goverment to take control of the army ( who have 10 billion dollars worth of weapons provided by the current US administration) and in turn control their nuclear arsenal
Pakistan's democrats..led by Asif Ali Zardari....husband of the slain former P.M. Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif who was ousted by Musharraf in 1999...must come together to form a solid alliance and move Pakistan ahead
BTW...the Russian forces are "retreating" for the umpteenth time by PUSHING FORWARD to Igoeti which is only 45 kilometers from the capital of Georgia
#8 Posted by Canuck on August 19, 2008 at 9:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
#11 - Rejoice -
I agree with Henry K. Religion has no place in the presidential campaign or in any form in government. Keep religion and the presidency seperate. It's a shame that in this country, politicians think they have to cater to Christianity, the religious right or any group of people who still believe in archaic beliefs.
Bill Maher said he doesn't believe in any group of people who believe in talking snakes. He is an atheistic comic who doesn't mince words about how crazy people are who still believe in the miracles of a bygone era. It's all superstition and has no place in the government of the United States of America.
Long live our secular humanistic government. It's too bad that Obama has to align himself with religious nuts, but that is the way the cookie crumbles.
I will vote for Obama, but only because he is better than the other guy. Why are we always stuck with such poor choices? Why can't we have a true progressive for president for a change? Why do our presidents think it is their duty to bring their religious beliefs into the oval office? Will we ever become a rational people? It doesn't seem that way. Americans are a bunch of hypocrites when they think religion in government is a good thing.
#9 Posted by rationalman on August 19, 2008 at 9:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Bruce Durkee -
You don't seem to like John Riccio and Eddie Filer. Who cares what you think. At least, those two are telling the truth, and you, Mr. Durkee, don't like to listen to truth.
#10 Posted by rationalman on August 19, 2008 at 9:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rejoice -
The reason I think the Earth would be better off without people is because human beings have ruined everything. It would be a miracle if this Earth will survive the destructive practices of human beings? Are you blind? The rain forests are rapidly disappearing. The Earth is turning to desert in many places. Plants and animals are disappearing, the oceans are dying. If humans continue to rape and devestate the Earth, it will soon have a total collapse. We are multiplying too fast and using up all the Earth's resources. The trees and oil will soon be gone. Ninety percent of the fish are already gone. Nuclear energy is a potential time bomb and can destroy all life. The future is bleak, and if you can't see what is happening you are as blind as a bat.
#11 Posted by rationalman on August 19, 2008 at 10:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
meanwhile the fighting with the Taliban continues in Afganistan against the NATO forces and the French paid the price today!!
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, Aug. 19 -- In unusually large and well-coordinated operations in eastern Afghanistan Monday, Taliban fighters killed 10 French soldiers and at least six suicide bombers attacked a base of NATO alliance troops, NATO and Afghan officials said Tuesday.
The fighting with the French began late Monday afternoon when dozens of insurgents ambushed a French-led patrol near the town of Sarobi about 40 miles east of Kabul, according to NATO officials. Shortly after the ambush, a quick reaction force of NATO and Afghan soldiers and air support was sent to reinforce the French patrol.
read the full report in the Washington Times
the coalition forces will have to decide whether they are going to pursue the Taliban and rebuild the Afgan infrastructure and continue to look for Bin Laden
#12 Posted by Canuck on August 19, 2008 at 10:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Uniforms are not only practical, but these days they are necessary, at least at the upper levels. The year before uniforms at my school we had 3,000 dress code violation referrals!!! We tried getting parents to bring clothes, giving them ugly stuff to "borrow" for the day, ISS, detentions and out of school suspension. Still the referrals kept coming, in spite of the fact that there were consistent consequences in place. Most of these referrals were girls wearing their clothing painted on, too revealing up top, too short on the bottom. Last year, with uniforms, that figure of 3,000 went down to about 20!
#13 Posted by mags156 on August 19, 2008 at 10:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Lee J. Miller asks "Is it a time to take a step backwards? Now that's exactly the kind of question I would expect from a conservative Republican. How far do you want to go back Lee? Maybe to when everyone believed the earth was "flat" like your observations and obvious beliefs. Phew! How many of these jerks are running around loose?
#14 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 19, 2008 at 10:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gonefishin: You really ought to try ice fishing, preferably in the Arctic off Prudhomme Bay or the likes. I bet you could "drill" a lot better hole there than those you keep coming up dry with in this forum.
#15 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 19, 2008 at 10:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rejoice, ya catch that? Six Frenechman killed by the Taliban.
Ya gonna do your part as a true patriot and start super sizing those French fries again instead of American fries with your triple whopper with cheese?
#16 Posted by boulderbilly on August 19, 2008 at 10:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rejoice: You said you "saved the best for last". You lied again! I'll put my "kool aid" down as you put it and quote a little Shakespeare. You probably never heard of him, but he said something like "a rose is a rose under any name". I think if you can get the "drift", Obama will be Obama under any name as well. Right now Mickey Mouse looks better than what America has endured the last eight years, and would be a reasonable option in lieu of the current potential Viagara spokesman as well. Maybe Cindy has some left over drugs around the house that she can pep up her "Johnny"? Ooh, you didn't know about that chapter in their relationship, or did you?
#17 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 19, 2008 at 10:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Arthur Walsh comes to the defense of ltte writer Joppa and "free market capitalism". His profound observation of how the misguided criticisms offered cater to the communist countries of China etc. Oh for the "good old days" when a capitalist could use the euphemism of colonialism for the purpose of exploitation and real profit. There are just some "liberal" idealist that persist in "punishing" achievement, domination and "success". Will they ever learn? It's all in the bible, isn't it?
#18 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 19, 2008 at 11:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gonefishin & Rejoice: What's your view of bombing clinics where abortions might be conducted? Why did that nurse coddle that premie baby that was "aborted" so long before seeking a doctor or professional help beyond her capabilities? Was she "so attached" or not too "bright"? Does an unborn innocent baby go directly to heaven to enjoy paradise for eternity? Hmmmm. I wonder if the Muslims picked up on that theory?
#19 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 19, 2008 at 11:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Uniforms are for prisons not schools...."
#13 Posted by dooley
While I do mostly agree with said statement, it is a sad state of affairs when schools in California and New York and elsewhere have metal detectors and kids are killed every week. Sometimes because they are wearing certain colors,certain styles or certain articles of clothing.
I.E. The whole gang issue, bloods vs. crips, red vs. blue, red bandanna vs. blue anywhere on your person represents certain types of gang affiliations.
Would you rather see all the kids dressed the same or have one singled out beaten, or possibly murdered because of the clothes they wear?
Not to mention the fact of price of certain clothes.
There are some rare and very expensive basketball sneakers out there , McDunks and Jordans,etc.
Check out this Ebay ad , rare shoes for 3 thousand bucks!!! Ebay Item number: 180277607754
Rare AIR-JORDAN's/Carmelo Anothony's
Tempting for a middle or lower class child to see an upper class child sporting something they really want, isn't it?
Uniforms serve their purpose Dooley...
#20 Posted by Jadip811 on August 20, 2008 at 5:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Lee, Is there anything more immoral than attacking and invading an inocent, sovereign country like Iraq, killing 10's of thousands of thier people because we 'thought' they were going to harm us? We are the most powerfull country in the world, they were helpless against us. And no, this is not a 'liberal' idea.
#21 Posted by bossman1 on August 20, 2008 at 6:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jean, And why do you think Bush jr/Cheney took us into Afghanistan and Iraq? Oil and gas pipelines, oil, oil, oil.
#22 Posted by bossman1 on August 20, 2008 at 6:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Bush jr signs a missile deal with Poland potentiality putting U.S missiles on the Russian boarder. Then Rice brags about it while Russian is invading Georgia. Is this the way to get McCain elected as President?
What if Russia signs a missile deal with Cuba and employes missiles 100 miles from our shores? And what would McCain do if President? Start WWIII?
McCain is no JFK or IKE, no war hero, just another war monger politican.
#23 Posted by bossman1 on August 20, 2008 at 7:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Must disagree with Lee B. Miller's letter of the day.
Morality is innate in most of us, i.e. we have a conscience that tells us that using and hurting others is wrong, and the ones of us who don't have such a sense of right and wrong can be told the difference, but cannot be taught the difference.
But it also depends on what you mean by morality. If your entire idea of morality revolves around sex and not violence or corruption, then you'll definitely have a warped perspective on human nature.
I've known people who are just plain evil and people who are just plain good and many shades of gray between the two. If Lee Miller needs someone to tell him right from wrong, I suggest he use the simple question... how would I feel if someone did that to me?
#24 Posted by AARGGHHH on August 20, 2008 at 7:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Re: Obama's lack of foreign policy "experience."
Let's see.
W was GOVERNOR of Texas. Clinton was GOVERNOR of Ark. Regan was GOVERNOR of Cal. Carter was GOVERNOR of Georgia.
That's most of our recent presidents elected with NO foreign policy "experience" whatsoever.
How much, exactly, is enough, and where does one get it?
#25 Posted by bananas8187 on August 20, 2008 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
From todays NYT....
"The Kremlin has leveled sustained criticism against the American plan, characterizing it as a hostile act near the Russian border. But American officials insist that the system will defend against threats from countries like Iran and would not target Russia."
Has anyone in the White House looked at a map? It makes absolutely no sense to put this system in Poland to counter an Iranian missile attack. Any missiles fired from Iran at Europe have to overfly Turkey, another NATO member. Why not place the missiles close to the threat? What is the Bush Administrations real intent here?
Everyone remembers the US response when the Soviets placed missiles on our border. Why should they respond any differently when we attempt to shift the balance of power?
The only aspect of the whole affair that makes any sense is that Bush sent the only member of his staff with any balls to sign the agreement.
#26 Posted by boulderbilly on August 20, 2008 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
truthless: "Thank you Algonquin999 for enlightening us about the Weathermen who were anti Viet Nam war. They were patriots to our principles."
AllGone: "Not even the house had outside damage. Look for pictures. The bomb went off in a work room."
"In the following days, a brick-by-brick search of the rubble uncovered 57 sticks of dynamite...Also found were...maps of the tunnel network underneath Columbia University, and literature of the political protest organization, Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), from which the Weatherman organization had split off."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwic...
AllGone: Since you claim to have been SDS, bet you're glad those "patriots to our principles" didn't get to light a fire under you.
What an uneducated lot.
#27 Posted by GoneFishin on August 20, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good point bananas!
One more time, the small amount of oil that would be produced from off shore drilling would be sold on the open market, like all other oil we produce. WE DO NOT USE THE OIL WE PUMP, WE SELL IT TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER, ASIA. The entire oil-opoly would have to be revamped for national consumption only, and that ain't gonna' happen, especially with all the anti-socialists around.
Abortion is legal, get over it. The consequences are worse.
The Georgian invasion was initially about ethnic cleansing, the Georgians were attacking Russian Nationals. But, since they are our allies (Georgia), you did not hear anything about that on MSM. The secondary issue was the BTC pipeline, which was built to circumvent Russia and OPEC. As a bonus, Russia was able to take control of it, making them the world's leader in oil and gas exports. They are now on top. What's sad is Putin offered a nuclear peace agreement with world reduction efforts to the newly elected Bush in 2000, and Bush poo-pooed the idea and blew him off, causing another riff between the two nations. This is probably the worst mistake Bush has made, including the Iraq war. Our foreign diplomacy couldn't get any worse, so Obama can only make improvements. McCain doesn't have a clue, sorry.
#28 Posted by 1nParadise on August 20, 2008 at 9:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The Us has become like the local drunk on the world stage. Bellicose, arrogant, and full of hubris as it staggers around the room, upending tables, spilling drinks, and all the while crying about why no one loves him anymore.
January cannot get here soon enough. With Gods help, President OBAMA will not inherit wars on the Russian border, Pakistan, and Iran as well as Iraq and Afghanistan.
Christ, is there anywhere in the freakin' world besides Iceland that Bush hasn't created havoc? And a few kool aid drinkers want four more years of the same? Sounds like Halliburton heaven. Do you have any idea how much Cheney and his partners can make from National Health Care Services in all these countries? Provided by Halliburton and paid for by the US taxpayer, again, of course.
The Bush White House. Five acres of heaven surrounded by reality.
Leaves me scratchin' my head.
#29 Posted by boulderbilly on August 20, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
inParadise....the initial conflict in Georgia was the S. Ossetia separatists....armed by Russia...who were shooting up villages and towns in Georgia....the Georgian troops moved in to quell this uprising and Russia used this excuse to invade a soverign country
just because Russia issued illegal passports to the dissident does not make them Russian nationals
Russia's true purpose was not only to expand their empire but also to gain complete control of the connecting tunnel between Georgia and Russia and the BTC pipeline which forces Georgia and other surrounding countries to depend on Russia for their oil and gas
you can examine Russia's intent by reading their several "withdrawal" statements..yet they are pushing further into Georgia
#30 Posted by Canuck on August 20, 2008 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks for clarification on Georgia. The US was trying to corral Russia by installing bases in the surrounding "Stans" and this is a big blow to the plan.
Today Poland signed the deal for the defense missile installation with Condi (Bush is on vacation, again). This further aggravates the tension building between Russia and US. The Neocons are not happy unless there are several wars and a cold war to make money on.
#31 Posted by 1nParadise on August 20, 2008 at 10:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This sums up what Obama is all about:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffreyg...
#32 Posted by GoneFishin on August 20, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This just about sums it up...
http://www.cafepress.com/werescrewed08
#33 Posted by AARGGHHH on August 20, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mike M If the US puts missiles in the Ukraine, I suggest you put a uniform on, because you will have another missile crisis, ala Cuba, for sure!
About those percentage figures, are you sure they are so high, or did Rush say that on one of his propaganda broadcasts?
Don't fret though, you will always have "Star Wars" for "excitement.
#34 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 20, 2008 at 1:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
allgonequittin' : Let me correct my posts from yesterday so you will s t f u. (I was talking on the phone and taking up all the first posts, so I stopped, but since you're such a dummy who thinks...Ah, you don't think at all.)
Eddie, it's not fossil fuels but CFCs that were harming the ozone and the ice caps didn't thaw as much this year as it did last year (apparently not as much as 1980, either.)
How's that, fool? How are those Greenwich Village bomb facts making you feel about your intelligence? Probably makes you feel smart to copy and paste the (Suggest removal) part, too.
What a numb skull.
#35 Posted by GoneFishin on August 20, 2008 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Bossman1, you make a good point about reversing our putting IBMs in Poland and Russia's reaction, compared to what would our reaction be had Russia put missiles in Cuba? You said McCain would start WWIII. I agree.
Russia isn't stupid, and who does Bush think he's kidding with his excuses for putting IBMs in Poland? Maybe Bush thinks that the Russians are as easily fooled as a lot of the American people.
Anyway, everything Bush does is antagonistic toward Russia? Why? Is it deliberate or just plain brashly ignorant?
As far as Georgia goes, it is obvious this is about Georgia's effort to absorb the provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia against their will. And Bush even said the same. That's another no brainer. This is outright aggression on two separatist provinces that want to be aligned with Russia. It's absolute aggression on them who have been independent for over 15 years, as long as Georgia has been out of the Soviet Union.
#36 Posted by truthmatters on August 20, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Syria has now told Russia that it wants to allow them to put a missile shield in their country.
But don't worry, Barry wants to cut funding.
#37 Posted by GoneFishin on August 20, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gonefishin: Ah, the smell of napalm, victory! That must have been the sentiments of McCain on his missions in Viet Nam. His experience and learned lessons certainly are the ingredients we need to deal internationally with those "Russian Commies". (They don't know anything and can't recognize the military genius we are trying to employ in behalf of the "security" of the world)
Like the NRA says: "Guns don't kill, people do!" That kind of logic spills over to "diplomatic" dealings as well. Any good "conservative" Republican neocon understands the "fundamentals" of "protecting" the interests of those "in the know". Hope you get the satirical twist!!!!
#38 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 20, 2008 at 2:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BoulderBilly, good question. Is there anywhere that Bush hasn't created havoc? He is Conan the Destroyer for sure.
One reason I think Obama may have been reluctant to make some kind of federal law about a live aborted fetus is the same reason that the Federal government doesn't belong in cases like the Terry Sciavo case. That is her own wishes or a family matter. It is not up to the state to impose it's will in these cases. That's why also, the life of the fetus has to be left to the family and the doctors, not the state. There may be some complicated cases that mean the fetus would be a vegetable etc. That's not for the Federal Gov. to decide. I applaud Obama for his insight in this decision.
As far as Obama's last name being different for a few years: His mother remarried when Barack was about four, and his step father was Indonesian. He may have then been given his step fathers last name. Barack's mother and his Stepfather moved to Indonesia when Barack was about 6 because the government had called his stepfather back there.
Barack was first placed in a Catholic school, the religion of his mother and grand parents. However, then he was moved to an Indonesian public school where all religions were represented. It did not teach Islam and was not a church related school.
Barack's stepfather may have been Muslim, but to my knowledge, as said in Barack's book, he was not a religious man. I do not see any evidence that Barack was schooled in Islam. And his mother divorced his stepfather when Barack was 10 and they moved back to the States. It was probably then that Barack reverted to his original name, if it had even been changed for a few years during his mother's second marriage.
Barack may have been knowledgeable about some of the teachings of the Muslim faith, but he was never a Muslim himself.
Someone mentioned yesterday or the day before that Barack referred to his white Grandfather as his father. That was either a slip up or that he thought of his Grandfather like a father because he was so instumental in raising him being Barack's birth father left when Barack was two.
At any rate, Barack now and for many years has been Christian. He worked in Chicago neighborhoods to coordinate Christian churches' involvement in helping the poor children there.
There is nothing phony about Barack's deep beliefs. However, he respects the beliefs of others and does not think it right to mix religion and state. It is harmful to both the religions and the state.
#39 Posted by truthmatters on August 20, 2008 at 2:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rehjoice: You certainly should be "celebrating" the Reuters poll "indications". I know the feeling having supported Kerry and Dukakis who led similarly at this juncture of their campaigns.
Then again, the GOP/RNC "have not yet begun to fight" ala John Paul Jones. (How's that for patriotism?) Just wait until "conservative" Republicans unleash their full salvo of "information" about the shortcomings of Obama. Democrats and Liberals. That will completely erase the "Bush/GOP tragedy of the last eight years. FOur more years! Four more years! I can hear it now in the Minneapolis Airport bathroom in a few days!!!
#40 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 20, 2008 at 2:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Okay, okay, Gonefishin. My #67 post was long, because unlike Rejoice who had a long conversation in numerous blogs with himself earlier, I put it all in one blog.
I will say again, though, I don't offer other sites to refer to. That takes time too even though all of it may be worthwhile hearing.
#41 Posted by truthmatters on August 20, 2008 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
AllGone - Falling back on the wiki argument is as lame as falling back on the old Fox News thing. But what can you expect from a dolt?
That story is everywhere. You SDS types are so blind, but here's something you can search for on the internet:
"...the original No. 18 West 11th Street is no longer there; it was destroyed by terrorists in March 1970.
"Actor Dustin Hoffman and his family resided at 16 West 11th at the time and suffered extensive damage to his apartment."
AllLost: Oh, it was contained to a work room in the basement.
Are you just lying to yourself, simply plain ignorant or all of the above?
#42 Posted by GoneFishin on August 20, 2008 at 2:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Truthmatters....re your post #59...please re=read the history of the breakup of the Soviet Union and Georgia's territory
following is fron the Christian Monitor 8/19/08
"When the USSR broke up in 1991, Georgia won its independence and was admitted to the United Nations as a sovereign state within its Soviet-era borders. Under international law, therefore, the breakaway territories of South Ossetia and Abkhazia belong to Georgia. Tbilisi alleges, with considerable evidence, that Russian meddling during the bitter civil wars that followed helped the two statelets win their de facto independence and that Moscow's support has been crucial to keeping them going ever since."
#43 Posted by Canuck on August 20, 2008 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The new Swift Boat Attacks are gaining some traction:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VIdbYjm...
#44 Posted by GoneFishin on August 20, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rejoice, I haven't seen a poll showing Obama behind McCain. You managed to dig one up and then say McCain's ahead. What about all the other polls that show Obama's ahead?
Anyway, it's almost miraculous Obama's still alive with the poison, lie filled Right Wing machine rolling over him. They try to put doubt, any doubt into people's minds about him. And, it doesn't matter whether it's a lie or not.
It's really disgusting, but then so typical of Right Wing tactics. They can't win on the truth or their policies, so they destroy.
I can only hope that Obama can get the truth out so people see it and know he's a man of integrity, good judgment and intelligence. He truly loves this country and wants her to succeed and prosper.
He has strong ethics and is a good example with his very lovely family. His wife is smart and does care about America very much. It's the leaders she's been disappointed in.
His children are very sweet and well behaved. How anyone can tear down this nice family is beyond me.
You may disagree with policy, but smearing a good man like Obama is downright sinful. Also, thank goodness he had the insight to forego federal funding. It never would have been enough to repel all those lies.
#45 Posted by truthmatters on August 20, 2008 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Canuck, unfortunately, we are entering a time of the super powers era re-emerging. Russia went bankrupt, but now it is back strong because of its energy (it control significant parts of Europe's energy). China is emerging. Those are two countries where things are just so rosy!
#46 Posted by GoneFishin on August 20, 2008 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)
truthless: Try to pay attention to today's news.
http://www.reuters.com/news/globalcov...
But don't believe polls.
MoveOn.org is trying hard to steal the election.
#47 Posted by GoneFishin on August 20, 2008 at 3:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gonefishin.......you forgot about India...do not dismiss them as an emerging power.....unfortunately the optics of the US involvment in world affairs are not good and one just has to travel to other countries to get a feel for where the US stands in people's minds
whoever wins the Presidential election will not only have a massive debt and resulting economic problems to overcome but many fences will have to be mended throughout the world
I say this without taking sides in your election but there is the reality of another "cold war" exists which will affect us all
#48 Posted by Canuck on August 20, 2008 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
oops...should read......the reality of another "cold war" does exist......
#49 Posted by Canuck on August 20, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh-Oh Libs.........McCain 46% - Obama 41%.....
CHANGE.......your tires!!!!
#50 Posted by truth on August 20, 2008 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MikeM, thanks for finding that. It gets tiresome doing research for these people.
Loved the Dohrn-Soros connection and the fact that Dohrn worked at the same law firm as Barry and Michelle.
No, they didn't really know each other.
#51 Posted by GoneFishin on August 20, 2008 at 4:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Canuck, I didn't forget about India, I just didn't lump them into the Russia/China group because India seems to be less aggressive. Watching them closely with the new Pakistani government coming is a must, though it looks like Bhutto's husband might get the nod.
#52 Posted by GoneFishin on August 20, 2008 at 4:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
CRYSTAL BALL PREDICTIONS:
Braco's past associations will be his down fall. No question about it. As more becomes known, the more opinion of him is dwindling.
Broom Hilary's roll call vote is going to back fire on Braco! You go girl!! May the "force be with you".
Bill is so excited that he maybe on his way back to the white house in order to do what he enjoys the most. He is practicing daily his famous command "Please send in the next intern and shut the door!"
How do you silence a "liberal"? Demand that they produce the facts!
#53 Posted by knital on August 20, 2008 at 4:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yep, they're startin' to catch on:
http://www.zazzle.com/barack_obama_ch...
#54 Posted by GoneFishin on August 20, 2008 at 4:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MikeM: Again, If the US puts missiles in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, I hope you have a helmet and a NRA "approved" carbine or BAR.
No one is cowering in a corner, but if someone points a gun at you, I think you should feel threatened. That seems to be the impression all you right wingers all give. Even, the "cowboy" in the White House would expect that in the "streets of Crawford, Texas". Or, maybe not, in his case. Shoot first and ask questions later; the good old American/Bush/GOP way.
#55 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 20, 2008 at 4:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rejoice: I'm a liberal that is more than willing to give you the FACTS! However, they won't match the "wishes" and "misconceptions" that you conservative tunnel vision advocates profess. Your technique of avoiding facts and questions that are counterproductive to your "core beliefs", is not a defense for your ridiculous accusations. Just saying it, doesn't make it true/real, even if Rush, sean and the other fanatics say so. You really wear youself out on the internet searching for the "messiah".
Keep it up! It's a free country in spite of Bush and Cheney's efforts to create a 1984!
#56 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 20, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Reagan technique: Isn't it time for Bush to implore Putin with the Reagan "remedy" by looking Putin in the eye and saying: "Mr. Putin, tear down this wall of fear of our missiles on your doorstep"? It worked before according to the GOP/RNC.
#57 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 20, 2008 at 5:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MikeM "Empty barrels make the most noise". Glad you are armed, and I'm certainly not your comrade. You and your "fellow transgressors" can continue to provoke competitors in the name of any political philosophy you profess, but beware of the consequences. I had hoped we learned that lesson before, but evidently a lot of people were absent or "away".
#58 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 20, 2008 at 5:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Let's see, in 1974 Barack was 13. You dip heads think he was connected with the weathermen. Get a life. You're grasping.
Also, his name is Barack Hussein Obama. If he were going to change it from Soetoro, do you think he'd pick a name like Barack Hussein Obama? Soetoro is much more euphonic.
You know, you Right Wingers really make me sick. How does a 6 year old kid choose his citizenship from the the U.S. to Indonesia? And why?
Also, if kids are taught to be polite and devout, at 6 years old that's what they do. I also have to remind you that much of Islam believes in the Old Testament. They believe Christ was a prophet who came before Mohammed. Mohammed was a prophet who came later.
You know, I can't take your goofiness anymore, and I hope the whole country gets as sick of your idiotic blusterings as I am. Also, none of them are relevant to the issues which, of course you don't want to talk about because you jokers have done such a miserable job. You know you can't run on that.
Well, keep it up. If you weren't so disgusting you'd be boring. So I guess that makes you boringly disgusting.
Also, if you want to hear some of the back ground of McCain and Obama, tune in to CNN tonight at 8:00. For the first hour and a half it's about McCain and for the second, hour and a half it's about Obama.
I hope they do a fair job for both of them. People who know little about them need a picture of their backgrounds.
#59 Posted by truthmatters on August 20, 2008 at 5:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
South Ossetia and Abkhazia do not want to be a part of Georgia. They have from the start not felt affiliated with them. When you have a break up as when Georgia broke away from the Soviet Union, you have people torn from their roots. I notice North Ossetia is next to South Ossetia. The North in Russia and the South sucked up into Georgia. I suppose this breaking apart was done by slicing lines through different provinces.
Don't South Ossetia and Abkhazia have a right to remain with whom they were before? I thought we believed in freedom.
Those separatist provinces have every right as far as I'm concerned to choose the country they want to be in. And, it's not like they never were connected. They were broken apart.
And who are we anyway, over here, to tell provinces where they belong? Seems to me we even backed those provinces that wanted to break from Yugoslavia. Serbia had Kosovo for hundreds of years, and yet we invaded and we now back kosovo independence because there are so many Albanians there who want it.
We either support freedom or not. Can we get it straight?
#60 Posted by truthmatters on August 20, 2008 at 5:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Are you people actually debating the religous character of a candidate when he was little kid? No wonder we can't ever get any decent and honest representatives to run for political offices. With all the intense criticisms combined with the gotcha nutcases controlling all the debates and the defamation, what normal person would bother?
#61 Posted by wes on August 20, 2008 at 6:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Truthmatters........you and I will never agree on this Russia/Georgia problem which is now encompassing most of the Baltics and may lead to other conflicts.......you will notice Russia is still not withdrawing it's military might or it's troops so it has other designs in that part of the world
all of the NATO countries have now lined up firmly against the Russian aggression
#62 Posted by Canuck on August 20, 2008 at 6:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rejoice: I'm waiting to find out if your infatuation with this Obama "identity" question in your mind will reveal a "sinister" plot to overthrow the government and put all conservative Republicans into concentration camps. It will be the "baptism" erasing all the sins of the Bush/Cheney administration of the last eight years. Bring it on!!!!
#63 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 20, 2008 at 7:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I guess the left is now into talking about kids. Maybe Barack for a while had his stepfather's name tacked on him, like sometimes happens in a second marriage. Then his mother probably changed it back to his original name when she divorced that Indonesian guy. But who cares? What the H... has that got to do with anything. My God you people are shallow.
I already explained why I thought Barack probably voted against that abortion bill when the baby was born alive. Read one of my above blogs. I don't want to go into it again.
I'm signing off. I've had all of your Right Wing goofy trivia I can take.
And as far as my support for Georgia to be free of Russia, Canuck. I support that. It's just that it appeared that South Ossetia and Abkhazia never did want to be a part of Georgia. Like in the beginning of our country. Not all the states signed on to the Union at first. It took a number of years with Hawaii and Alaska way later.
If South Ossetia wants to be part of Georgia than I'm for protecting that right. It seems we're talking past each other on different circumstances now.
Also, I think Russia will probably get out of Georgia if they are assured that Georgia won't again try to take over South Ossetia. For some reason they must not have an assurance of that.
There's a lot more to this, and we're not hearing the full side of Russia.
I say, we shouldn't make enemies more than we have to, and Russia is growing and powerful and probably can align with China in the future which holds a lot of our debt. We are in no position to act like know it all snits.
If we had any sense, we would try to be even handed and at best broker some kind of peace. But for Gosh sake stay out of confrontations and alienating countries.
#64 Posted by truthmatters on August 20, 2008 at 7:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
999, You have to understand that MikeM has a tunnel vision interpretation of late term abortions or any abortions for that matter. He probably is even more adamant about contraception, the next "great crusade".
Pro choice doesn't promote or advocate abortion. It tries to address the problem with understanding and the consideration of all parties concerned. Instead of creating a "hell on earth", I, for one, would like to think that those religious people who think those innocents deserve paradise for eternity are correct, but again they throw a "monkey wrench" into the proposition by making it "mandatory" that the innocents be baptized. Always a "catch".
#65 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 20, 2008 at 7:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
but again they throw a "monkey wrench" into the proposition by making it "mandatory" that the innocents be baptized. Always a "catch".
#141 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 20, 2008 at 7:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
would you kindly explain this comment...what is the "monkey wrench" you refer to and why do you use the word "mandatory" if that is their belief
and why is that a "catch"?
excuse my ignorance but your comments do not make sense to me...perhaps I missed something in an earlier post?
#66 Posted by Canuck on August 20, 2008 at 8:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Al999, "read my lips..." was his dad, as you so "clearly remember". Give it a rest and vote the way you want. I know I will. It's getting boring.
#67 Posted by almasonlybar on August 20, 2008 at 9:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Canuck, Well, it goes back to some Cathlic beliefs of yore. Teachings were and I still think are, that you must be baptized to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. They , the hierachy, used to say that babies and other "special" innocent situations went to a place called Limbo, but I understand they have since disclaimed any place like limbo exists. ???
The "monkey wrench" my interpretation is, that aborted fetuses never get a chance to be baptized so, ergo, they are ineligible, according to the "hierachy" to enter heaven. Since there is no limbo now either, it's more than a "catch". I guess. I suppose some more orthodox Catholic can "correct" any or all of my "misconceptions". No pun intended.
#68 Posted by Elephanttamer on August 20, 2008 at 10:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you like school uniforms so much buy several for your children. But don't tell other children how to dress! Most students conform to the dress code policy at CCPS.
#69 Posted by dooley on August 21, 2008 at 7:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
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